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Transit Tangents
The Podcast where we discuss all things transit. Join us as we dive into transit systems across the US, bring you interviews with experts and advocates, and engage in some fun and exciting challenges along the way.
Transit Tangents
Baltimore's Transit Future: The Red Line
We explore the revived Baltimore Red Line light rail project with Jerome Horne, Deputy Communications Director, who explains how this 14-mile east-west corridor will transform transportation across the city while potentially healing historical urban scars.
• The Red Line project dates back to 2002 planning but was canceled in 2015 just before construction began
• Governor Wes Moore resurrected the project in 2023, recognizing its vital importance to Baltimore's transportation network
• Three route alternatives are under consideration, balancing tunneled sections versus surface routes
• The project will connect with existing light rail, metro subway, and regional rail systems
• The Red Line could help rectify harm done by the "Highway to Nowhere" that displaced Black communities
• Expected $19 billion economic impact through construction jobs, operations positions, and transit-oriented development
• Community engagement focuses on preventing displacement while encouraging appropriate density
• Jerome shares his personal journey from music education to transit advocacy, starting with an email to a transit CEO at age 10
Learn more about the Baltimore Red Line at redlinemaryland.com or follow @RedLineMaryland on social media.
Doors are closing.
Speaker 2:Public transit, that's my way to roll On the metro. I'm taking control Full throttle. Stopped train tracks it's my daily grind, Daily grind.
Speaker 1:Public transit, it's the rhythm of my life, oh yeah, this week on Transit Tangents, we discuss the proposed Baltimore Red Line light rail with Jerome, the Deputy Communications Director for the project. This project has had a rocky history but is back on track with the hopes to finally bring East-West light rail to Baltimore. Let's jump into our conversation with Jerome. Hey everybody, and welcome to this episode of Transit Tangents. My name is Lewis, I'm Chris.
Speaker 2:And I'm Jerome.
Speaker 1:And, yes, we're very happy to be joined by Jerome today, who is part of the Baltimore Red Line Project. This is part of our kind of Northeast Corridor trip. We've been in Boston, we've been in Philadelphia and now we are here in Baltimore. I've only been to Baltimore once in like eighth grade for half a day, so I'm not even going to really count that, but we're very excited to be here. Jerome was happy to help put together a little happy hour event for us last night, so we got to chat with a lot of local folks who are both transit advocates as well as folks working at the agency. So, first off, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. We're very excited to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, delighted to meet you all and share a little bit about what's happening in Baltimore.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I guess, to kick us off, can you just give us the overview of what is the Baltimore Red Line Project?
Speaker 2:The Baltimore Red Line Project is a revived east-west light rail so it'll span 14 miles across the city and Baltimore County, kind of stretching in the west in Baltimore County from Woodlawn area, coming into the city through US Route 40, through downtown Central Business District and then ultimately ending east at Johns Hopkins Bayview Hospital, and this really fills in a critical east-west gap. We have buses that run in that corridor today that are among our highest ridership routes and this was always intended to, you know, for higher capacity, premium transit, and so this will really help fill that need, allow us to move more people more efficiently and really fill in some of the critical giving people critical access to opportunity in parts of West Baltimore and some of our job centers that are located elsewhere.
Speaker 3:I think the key word there was it's a revised or revived plan. Can you give us a little bit of the history of the Red Line and what you mean by revived plan?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this project has a history. The modern incarnation goes back to 2002 with the Baltimore Regional Rail Plan. This was a plan that was put out identifying existing and potential rail corridors, looking at a combination of light rail and potential heavy rail investment, and in that plan there was an east-west line that was given the color red and that's where the color comes from. And really, though, this goes back all the way to the streetcar era. If you look at, our last streetcar line in Baltimore to run was the Route 8, which actually went from West Baltimore and then went north into Towson, one of our satellite cities, and it was among the highest ridership lines.
Speaker 2:And then after that, in the 1960s, planners in Baltimore began to plan a sort of modern Great Society metro system similar to what we see in DC, atlanta and the Bay Area.
Speaker 2:You know that planning happened, but unfortunately the system did not come to fruition, but it was always intended to have an east-west line.
Speaker 2:We did build one line, a 15-mile heavy rail metro, and so the 2002 plan once again kind of studied some corridors, and if you look at the 1960s metro plan and the 2002 rail plan, you'll see a lot of similarities. And so the 2002 plan comes out, and one of the priority recommendations from that plan is this east-west corridor, which became the red line. So this project moved forward through the process of working with our federal partners, the Federal Transit Administration, securing local funding, and then, ultimately, we did win federal funding and the project was pretty much ready to start construction in 2015. Unfortunately, previous governor administration decided to cancel the project, and so, you know, many people thought maybe the project was dead, but the dream of the Red Line was never really dead. That need was always there. So in 2023, now, governor Westmore of Maryland decided to resurrect the project, and so that brings us to where we are today, with the revived East-West Red Line light rail.
Speaker 1:Oftentimes, like things like this can be frustrating because you know if it did end up in 2015,. You know everything moves forward. We very well could be like almost ready to this trip could be. We're coming to ride the Red Line almost at this point, so, um, but very good news to see it coming back. Um, right now you all are in the phase where you're sort of trying to decide exactly where this thing will run, so there's three different proposed alternatives. Um, I can you kind of walk us through the the stage that you're in now and kind of the processes that you're going through in terms of how to choose exactly which alignment this route will take?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you're absolutely right. We're in the what we call the alternative analysis phase. Of our three different alternatives, so alternative one closely mimics the 2015 project. It includes two tunnels one sort of mile long tunnel with no stations, on the western edge of Baltimore City and then a sort of four mile tunnel under downtown with five underground stations and a direct connection to our existing metro. And then the two other alternatives, alternative 2A and 2B, are fully surface and while they all follow the same general corridor, you know there are some differences. Obviously, the the tunneling part is risky and the most expensive and would take the most time, but it does offer the most reliable and fastest service. However, the surface alternatives add some advantages as well. One difference between 2015 and now is the city of Baltimore adopted a complete streets law which allows us to prioritize pedestrians, cyclists, transit on the surface level and kind of reimagine our streets as places that are really hospitable to humans. So those two surface alternatives it does offer the ability to potentially reimagine some of our streets, particularly in downtown and other parts of the city, to make them human friendly and really human centered.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of factors Cost is one, time to construct is another. The two surface alternatives could be built faster and cheaper. And there is this idea of sometimes the transit being on the surface. It's visible. That is one aspect of riding. We've all ridden systems in different cities. I think of the Chicago L. It is different when you can see what you're going by versus when you're underground.
Speaker 2:So you know, the surface alternatives do give us the opportunity to add in maybe a few more stations that we wouldn't have on the underground, just due to the expense. And so you know there's trade-offs about speed, reliability, but also access could be increased. And so, yeah, really it's looking at the factors of cost, time to build access, and then just the reality of our financial reality. We are going to do our best to continue working with our partners on the federal level, but also locally at the city, county and state. We're going to need to come up with our share of the money to finance the project as well. Right, we're going to need to come up with our share of the money to finance the project as well.
Speaker 1:Right, and for the context too, for folks not as familiar with Baltimore. You mentioned that this would have a transfer station with the existing metro. So presently you all have one kind of metro subway line, and then there is also a light rail here as well.
Speaker 2:So this, would this intersect with the light rail as well? I guess, and yes, so yeah, all three alternatives that we're studying would directly intersect with our existing 30 mile north south light rail. They would also intersect with our commuter rail service or regional rail service, the the mark train. At west baltimore mark there is the potential of building a proposed east baltimore mark station. Well, that this line would terminate on the east end and then, depending on the alternative, you know there are varying degrees of connectivity to the existing metro line Gotcha.
Speaker 3:I'm curious. So you're in this planning phase, was this? Is this sort of the second time this has been fully planned out? When this before this project was revived and when it was cancelled, had we already gone through all of this planning before?
Speaker 2:Right. So we went through a lot of planning right previously, and the good news is we didn't have to start immediately all the way back from ground zero, so we have been able to use a lot of the good work that was done in the past. And so you know, we're doing a supplemental environmental impact statement, which means we get to take the good bits and the things that really haven't changed from 10 years ago. Reuse that, but we do have to factor in some things that have changed. There are parts of the corridor where the right of way, the path that we thought we were going to take, no longer is an option, so we're having to look at different alternatives there, and so that does trigger more review and more study that we need to do this time around.
Speaker 3:That was even my question is what significant challenges have sort of come up since that previous period where we thought we were moving forward to this project to today. But that's a good one if the right of ways have changed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the right of way in certain locations is definitely a challenge. Obviously, you know this is not unique to Baltimore. But the cost to build these projects right, there are many factors. I encourage people to look at the transit cost project to learn more about the details there. But yeah, we, you know that's definitely a factor that we're going to have to consider and you know getting really creative about the financing. So the other challenge you know the city is dynamic and the city is changing. We actually gained population for the first time last year in a long time and I think, with this complete streets law and a city DOT and folks that are interested in how we transform the surface realm to be more human, friendly, that does present you know other other, you know positive things that we could use this project to help implement.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the cost is such a big one too. Other positive things that we could use this project to help implement. Yeah, the cost is such a big one too. I mean, we talk about it a lot with Project Connect in Austin. Since COVID, I think all of the costs were estimated to go up by 60% across the board. So I'm sure you're facing very similar issues here. Yes, Can you just kind of give us an overview of what the impact is going to be to Baltimore with the Red line being completed? If you were, you know, fast forwarding to this line being completely done, how do you see that sort of transforming the city behind us?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you used one of my favorite words transform. This project will be positively transforming for the city. You, as I mentioned, our existing rail lines that we have are sort of disconnected. The transfers aren't necessarily the most seamless, so this would go a long step in connecting those lines and creating more of a real system for Baltimore. As I mentioned that east-west corridor, there are many bus routes today that run in the corridor or parallel to it, some of which are in certain cases almost overcrowded. So this really helps us build that capacity.
Speaker 2:The other thing is that it's more than just a transit project. It is a community revitalization tool, it is an economic development driver. We're estimating that the total return on investment could be as much as $19 billion and that includes, you know, not only the temporary jobs created during construction, but then there's, you know, hundreds of full-time permanent jobs for operations and maintenance and beyond that then there's additional transit-oriented development opportunities along the entire 14 miles that we have the ability to. The Red Line can really serve as a catalyst for that. You know Baltimore City peaked population in the 1950s around almost a million people. Today we're down to about 565,000. And you know we need to regrow and repopulate and certainly investing in high quality premium transit like the Red Line, allows us to really think about upzoning, making sure that we, you know, build the density or allow the density to really work in our favor.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Something that I'm curious to get your take on. So recently we did an episode that was like seven urban highways that Chris and I think that should be removed, and one of them that actually made our list was here in Baltimore. The like Frank Franklin Mulberry is a Frank.
Speaker 2:I'm getting it right, franklin.
Speaker 1:Mulberry, it's for those of you haven't seen that episode. We'll make sure there's a link for you to check it out. But some of the alignments that you all are proposing with the red line would actually utilize some of the space, which made me happy here. I didn't notice that before we were chatting earlier today. Can you talk about? You know how this could utilize that corridor and the benefits that it could have in that part of town?
Speaker 2:Yeah and so yeah. For those who are unfamiliar, the Highway to Nowhere 1.4 mile stretch of sunken highway that was originally intended to connect Interstate 70 to 95 and going across, you know, all of Baltimore, including our beautiful Inner Harbor. They would have ran the highway right, you know, on the waterfront. I'm glad they did not do that.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But unfortunately the section that did get built, majority black, thriving neighborhood in West Baltimore. My great grandmother was actually displaced for the construction of this highway, so I have a personal connection. We are approaching this with great sensitivity. We are talking about neighborhoods that have had many promises made in the past and promises not kept. There's been a lot of disinvestment, there is some mistrust of government agencies, and so you know, we want to be real about that and be sensitive to how we engage with that community and we've been doing a lot of targeted and specialized outreach in West Baltimore. So this highway, you know, because it has put such a scar and really a gash in the city, really disconnecting those communities, the Red Line has the opportunity to help, in part, begin to rectify some of that harm by one, putting in, you know, access to opportunity in other parts of the city and utilizing parts of that corridor to help, you know, make that space more usable.
Speaker 2:So today there's a median that was always intended actually for the east-west line of the Baltimore Metro, and so one of our alternatives would use that median in the middle of the highway.
Speaker 2:We're also looking at alternatives that were run on the surface level on Franklin and Mulberry, and so there's different trade-offs right, On one hand, on the surface level, we don't have to have vertical circulation with elevators and stairs. On the other hand, we have to cross a lot more intersections which could potentially slow down the service. So if we go in that median, you know we don't have to deal with the cross streets to run, you know, faster, more reliable service. We're also, you know, working in coordination with Baltimore City DOT. We did, we hope, win a Reconnecting Communities grant where we're beginning to look at how we might treat that highway, whether it's filling in, capping over parts of it, and certainly we're going to be working with them to coordinate our plans and make sure that the red line can seamlessly integrate into that. But we still have a long way to go in terms of fully rectifying that harm, if we ever really can. But we're glad that steps are beginning to work on that issue.
Speaker 3:Well, and that also brings up a good point too. You know you are trying to reconnect these communities, sort of rectify, as you said, rectify the harm that's happened in the past. Are there any early stage plans for preventing further displacement? If you build this in the area and then property values may go up or you see new developments go up, do you know of any current plans now to help prevent that future displacement that could happen as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, certainly that's something that's top of mind for us. We've seen that happen in our close neighbor down the road in DC and in many other cities when these type of investments come in. We're still a little early in our planning process but certainly it is something that's front of mind that we want to make sure that we as the transit agency, whatever role we can play, partnering with the city, with the DOT Department of Housing, department of Planning, to really think about even the state. You know what options are there. Luckily, you know we have a lot of lessons learned that we can look to from around the country, of programs. I know in Austin right, there is sort of anti-displacement funding that came with the referendum. So there are a lot of different things that certainly we're going to be looking into because we know that that's that is going to be a potential potential issue that we want to tackle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good to hear that. No, and yeah, there is such a like. So many cities are doing a really good job with that now and it's it's balancing a mix of like making sure that folks who are in the area and want to stay there can make sure they get to stay there, while also utilizing, you know, space that might be, you know, uh, not being used today or as a giant surface parking lot or something like that, to, uh, more housing, more affordable housing in areas where folks could walk to this potential new transit solution.
Speaker 2:And I'll add that the agency, the Maryland Transit Administration and the Maryland Department of Transportation we do have a serious commitment to really thinking about TOD in maybe a way that we weren't in the past. A big part of that will definitely be an affordable housing component, particularly the West Baltimore station. There's a lot of opportunity with surface parking lots to reimagine that and we'll begin that work with the community to really kind of work hand in hand to make sure we know what they want and need and try to tailor it best to meet those community needs while still allowing the people to live in the neighborhood that are there today and bring in some new residents as well, for sure, awesome.
Speaker 3:The last thing I was going to say is your position with MTA being sort of communications director for Redline. It sounds like an awesome job that you get to really connect with people across the city in all these communities. Can you just speak to some of the highlights of that position and things that you really enjoy about being this communications director?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm a deputy director of communications and engagement.
Speaker 3:Sorry, sorry, deputy director. No, no, all good, all good.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, it's all good, it's all good, but future director but yeah, no, it is awesome and I love this stuff. Right, I am deeply. I'm a big transit nerd. I'm so passionate. I don't own a car, I live downtown, so in Baltimore I rode my bike to the interview and you know Baltimore, it's my hometown, so I'm deeply invested in this. I actually remember the 2002 rail plan. I was 14 years old back then. I'm now 37.
Speaker 2:And so it is an honor to be able to come back to my hometown and work on such a significant, transformative project. It is an honor to be able to go around the community and meet people from all walks of life. I think what I love about this project is it truly touches every sort of socio-economic demographic of the city and all of our key entertainment, business areas, hospitals, universities, everything in between. This line really is a good project that connects so much, and so I really take it as a personal mission and a charge to do right by the public, and I love talking to people, learning their stories, hearing their concerns, and we take that information back and synthesize it and work with our teams to figure out how are we designing and implementing a project in a way that honors the people that live here, while also thinking about the future and the future Baltimore, because we always like to say we're not. This project will take a little while, but we're building it for future generations, even generations that aren't born yet.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's awesome. The last thing that I want to bring up we got a little bit of your story last night, the happy hour that you planned. Thank you again for that. But in your story you talked about how you got into working with public transit, and it wasn't what you went to school for, it was just something you were really passionate about. Can you give a plug to people if they're passionate about public transit but they're not necessarily formally trained? What can they do to be more involved and get into this, this world?
Speaker 2:They can start their own podcast. Yeah, so I've had a really interesting career. I've been in transit almost 10 years, but I actually went to school for music education because I thought I wanted to be a high school band director and then run like a big 10, you know, college marching band. But I've always been interested in cities and trains since I was a little kid. In fact, when I was 10 years old. I sent my first email to the CEO of the Maryland Transit Administration at that time, asking him how can I get your job when I grow up? So yeah, at age 10, I was like I want to be a transit CEO. Did he respond? He did respond. You know he responded, and the summary is he said hey, Jerome, even at the age of 10, it's not too early to begin thinking about a career in transit. You're going to want to learn about finance and operations and all the things that make systems work, but the biggest takeaway I got at the end of that email he said the most important thing, though, if you want to be a leader, is how you treat other people. That's what people are going to remember you for and that's what's going to earn your respect, and people will want to follow you when they know how much you care about them and their interests.
Speaker 2:You know, I would say to folks I've been able to have a pretty great career in transit without having a background. You know the way I got into the field. I really used a lot of my transferable skills as a musician. It's both a left brain and right brain activity, and music is a form of expression and communication. There are parts of music that can be inherently rigid and mathematical and very systematic. There's also the expression and the flowing and the interpretation. Those are great skills that you can translate to many things in life. And so I really got in the door because I am a decent enough communicator and I was a nerd about transit enough that I started as an entry level community engagement coordinator back in Indianapolis at Indigo.
Speaker 2:And you know, once I got into the field though I was a sponge I was absorbing all the knowledge I could. I was watching lectures on YouTube, I was reading urban planning textbooks, I was volunteering at advocacy events. I was reading urban planning textbooks, I was volunteering at advocacy events. So I'd say for those of you who are interested, if your community has a local advocacy group, get plugged in. There are so many wonderful YouTube channels that exist and podcasts that are talking about this subject matter where you can just learn a lot. There are many great books out there that you could read, and I would say, if your dream is to work in transit you know, you never know Reach out to your local transit agency, your local city planning staff. More often than not, there are people out there that'd be willing to meet you for lunch or for coffee and just talk to you about their work in the field and maybe give you some pointers.
Speaker 2:The last thing I'll say is I shamelessly just reached out to people on LinkedIn, right, People that I found that were interesting. I would just shoot them a message. Sometimes they responded, Sometimes they didn't, but keep trying because you know, you never know. You can meet one person who could end up changing your life for the better, and so I've been really fortunate just to have some great people in my life, some great mentors that helped me navigate the field, and once again, I think it's the best decision I ever made to switch. Like I said, I love transit, I love cities, and for me, it's all about this personal mission to break down barriers and bring people together.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, absolutely, with all that. Seriously, thank you so much for taking the time. And we've been in communication for a while and you were like, oh, if you're ever in Baltimore, let me know. And so we reached out and I'm glad we did. This has been a really great trip so far and we're actually I don't know what the order of these will be coming out, but we're getting ready to go do Baltimore in a day using only public transit. It's getting a little hot out, so it'll be a long day for sure, but we're very excited to check out the system. So thank you very much for taking the time. We really appreciate it. For folks, if they want to learn more about the Redline project and kind of stay in touch with how things are going, where can they find out more?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can find out more. Visit our website redlinemarylandcom. Or just Google search Baltimore, Redline and that'll take you to our website. We're also at Redline Maryland on all forms of social media.
Speaker 1:Awesome. If you have not liked this video already, please consider doing so. If you have questions about the project, I'm sure we can make sure we send some of them along to Jerome. Definitely leave those in the comments. If you want to support the show directly, the best way is you can do so via our Patreon. You can check out the merch store, all that sort of stuff. If you don't mind joining us at the very end saying enjoy the rest of your Transit, Tangents Tuesday. We'll kind of wrap it up here. So thank you all so much for watching and enjoy the rest of your Transit.
Speaker 2:Tangents Tuesday.