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Transit Tangents
The Podcast where we discuss all things transit. Join us as we dive into transit systems across the US, bring you interviews with experts and advocates, and engage in some fun and exciting challenges along the way.
Transit Tangents
Chicago's $5.7 Billion Rail Project
The Chicago Red Line extension is finally breaking ground after fifty years of planning, promising to transform mobility for underserved communities on Chicago's far south side with a $5.7 billion investment in transit infrastructure.
• Five and a half mile extension from 95th Street to 130th Street serving Altgeld Gardens
• Four new stations bringing rail service to approximately 100,000 residents
• Project costs over $1 billion per mile, with $2 billion coming from federal grants
• Expected to reduce commute times by 30 minutes and generate $1.7 billion in development
• Construction begins 2025 with projected opening in 2029
• Debates continue about whether BRT or commuter rail alternatives could have provided similar benefits at lower costs
• Political concerns about transit funding and the potential for future administrations to target high-cost urban projects
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Doors are closing.
Speaker 2:Public transit, that's my way to roll On. A metro I'm taking control. Bus stops, train tracks it's my daily grind. Public transit, it's the rhythm of my life.
Speaker 1:On this episode of Transit Tensions, we talk about the Chicago Red Line extension. While this project does a great job of serving an area that is currently a rail transit desert, its price tag will surprise you. We'll discuss the route, the budget, potential alternatives and more on this episode of Transit Tangents.
Speaker 3:Hey everybody and welcome back to this episode of Transit Tangents. My name's Chris and I'm Lewis, and today we are diving into a topic that we've sort of touched on barely in the past, about the Chicago area and some of the work that's being done on the metro there, specifically the Red Line extension.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so in the past we talked about station improvements and whatnot on the northern end of the Red Line that are actually coming soon. So stay tuned for those. If you're in Chicago, if you get to ride them or anything, definitely let us know and see the new stations. We'd love to see them. But yeah, this is going to be a five and a half mile extension that goes further south into currently underserved areas on the south side of Chicago.
Speaker 3:Yep. This has been sort of decades in the making and it looks like we are finally breaking ground and making progress here in 2025, with an expected opening date in 2029 for this extension.
Speaker 1:Yep. So on the episode we're going to kind of talk about the plan itself. We'll give a brief overview of all of the transportation options in Chicago and also talk about some of the pros and cons of this project, because I feel a little strange when we start to talk about the price tag of this and all of that and I also want to touch on it later on in the episode. We'll talk about how the Biden administration actually signed to make sure funding for this happened kind of at the last minute in January before leaving office.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but to get started we'll do a brief overview of Chicago. If you've been to the Chicago area, you have seen the famous Chicago L, which is short for elevated train. It is a very extensive train network that sort of runs through the shoreline of Chicago and you have the red and, I think, purple line that go up north and then you have a red line that comes down south. In total you have about eight lines serving about 145 stations throughout the city. All of these sort of converge into downtown Chicago where there's this loop of metro that sort of goes around the Chicago area, Something sort of unique to the US. You don't see that a lot but it's really cool because it sort of works as like a central hub for all of those elevated lines.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And in addition to the L system they also have a massive suburban rail network known as Metra. There are 11 lines that go way out into the suburbs in significant length and numbers. It's actually impressive. When you just like, even if you go on Google Maps and click the transit view, you get a massive spider web.
Speaker 1:As we were looking at it, we were just saying, man, it really does need like a little bit of a ring route at some point and it would probably do pretty well and all that's about 500 miles worth of suburban rail, so very very extensive Yep and in addition to that you also have the South Shore line we're mentioning this specifically because it will kind of come in later in the conversation that connects downtown Chicago through Gary, indiana all the way out to the South Bend Indiana airport. That kind of also connects into this larger transportation system in the area.
Speaker 3:Former home of our good friend, yes.
Speaker 1:I'm actually, you know, we're going to speak specifically just about the red line in this episode, but in the future I would love to do a Chicago using only public transit episode.
Speaker 3:I have not had the opportunity to go and actually ride this network, so yeah, that's another good benchmark episode, similar to our DC one, where we went to DC and we knew that it wasn't going to be a necessarily bad experience. I think Chicago's would be a similar good like benchmark episode.
Speaker 1:Exactly, for sure, for sure. Um, all right with that. Uh, let's jump into, uh, the actual extension on the red line here. So, uh, we're talking about a five and a half mile extension as it approaches this part of town. Uh, right now it ends at 95th street and it runs right down the median of the highway all the way up till 95th. It kind of stays in the highway for a little bit, going into the extension, before kind of crossing over and into some existing Union Pacific right-of-way. In this area it shares the right-of-way but the rail line will actually be elevated all the way through here and it'll be elevated for the duration of the line it runs through. There'll be four new stops in total, ending at 130th Street where, you know, towards the end it actually veers away from the Union Pacific right-of-way and kind of joins in where the South Shore Limited and Metro tracks are running.
Speaker 3:As I mentioned before, this project has been decades in the making. It's actually been about a half century in the making. This was talked about back in 1969, when it was proposed by then Mayor Daley in Chicago, and it has literally taken half a decade or sorry, half a decade, half a century to get to this point. So, 50 years later, we're finally seeing progress and finally seeing a groundbreaking in 2025.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's pretty wild that it's taken that long. Obviously, it was probably floated at that point and then not, and then it's probably been floated a handful of times since. But, yeah, they're breaking ground this year, which is great. They started the engineering phase back in 2023, take some time to get all those plans together and they're hoping to have revenue service begin by 2029.
Speaker 3:Yeah, which it seems doable considering this is 50 years in the making and only five miles, like just over five miles, yeah five and a half miles, and again it's going to be not super disruptive to major roadways or anything.
Speaker 1:You should be able to do this in its own right of way here, sharing right away with some things, but not in a way where it's like you're not demolishing tons of buildings and houses and whatever it is to do this. Um, you're using land that is already kind of set aside for transportation and one thing.
Speaker 3:I had to do some property acquisitions, but, yeah, for the most part on the right away, so you would think this would be minimal disruption. Yeah, but in total this is going to add four new stations to the line one at 103rd Street, one at 111th Street, one in Michigan Avenue and then the one that ends at 130th Street, as you mentioned before.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and the price tag. On this one I had to like double, triple take it because it has ballooned quite a bit. This project will cost over $1 billion per mile, which it hurt a little bit inside as I was reading that it was supposed to be in the range of like $500 million to $600 million a mile when it was first floated. And then you know, with everything during COVID, a lot of construction materials, all this sort of stuff goes up like crazy.
Speaker 3:It was estimated that construction and labor costs increased by 60% post-COVID.
Speaker 1:Regardless. I mean it is yeah, so the total price tag on this is $5.7 billion as it stands today. Um, we'll kind of talk a little bit more about it a little bit later on here, but 2 billion of it roughly comes from federal grants that came in from the Biden administration. Uh, it was passed in January. They they actually like signed everything to make it official that that money will go through. I am going to knock on wood still here, because we're seeing a lot of funny stuff going on.
Speaker 3:There's no guarantee that current administrations won't try to claw that money back.
Speaker 1:Yes, which is obviously not ideal, but it is a reality.
Speaker 3:We'll have to check on the fertility rate of Chicago and see if it meets Sean Duffy's expectations to warrant funding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll see on that one, yeah, but overall, I mean this is going to be one of the most expensive elevated rail lines built in the United States. I mean it kind of has to be the most expensive, if I'm being honest, but we'll see.
Speaker 3:It really will be and I'm sure it's going to be something that conservatives and anti-transit folks point to as wasteful spending. We could get into the argument about if it's truly wasteful in just a moment, but, as you said, about $2 billion coming from the Biden-Harris administration from. Back in January, the city of Chicago also established a dedicated transit TIF, which is a tax increment financing, which is sort of a method of subsidizing infrastructure development or just a redevelopment of a region. That's estimated to provide roughly $950 million in local funding towards this project as well.
Speaker 1:And the remainder is going to come from state and CTA funding sources that they have set up already. So, as far as ridership goes, this area is currently not served by any of the elevated rail network. It is presently served in some areas by some of the commuter rails that we've talked about, as well as by bus service. But these new stations coming into the area are going to serve an estimated 100,000 people who live in this area, who live close to the new station locations. The ridership they're expecting about 38,000 weekday riders upon opening, with that increasing over time leading into 2040. And it's going to cut down the commute times for folks in far south side Chicago into downtown by upwards of 30 minutes because now they're not going to need to hop on a bus then take the bus transfer at the train station.
Speaker 1:As we all know, we've talked about buses on the show quite a bit relying on buses and potentially even needing to transfer and all this sort of stuff. Every little thing like that just takes more time. Transfers take time, they can add stress to people's commutes and they're going to be less likely to ride the more transfers they're going to need to do and this kind of solves that problem for folks in far south Chicago. We'll jump right back into the episode in just a second, but first, if you haven't liked this video or left a comment, please do so. It helps us out quite a bit and we also have some exciting news.
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Speaker 1:Lastly, if you want to support the show directly and get access to early episodes, you can do so on Patreon, but without further ado let's jump right back into the episode. So that's a general overview of where the line goes, the timelines of everything, what it's going to cost, who we're expecting to ride it. There are a few points on this, as I was doing research, that shocked me a little bit, especially considering the price tag and the other services that are already in the area. If you're from Chicago and you think that what I'm saying is wrong, please tell me. I want you to roast me in the comments if you think that I'm really wrong here, but the neighborhood that is going to be served by the 130th Street Station is Altgeld Gardens. The area is kind of a rail transit desert right now. There are bus lines that connect into here. In particular, the 34 bus does run through here and connect you to the end of the red line. Go ahead.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was going to say we should also mention mention that Altgale Gardens is a Chicago Housing Authority development too, so it's typically a low-income community and, as you're saying, they're underserved by rail, so that should be established. This is the destination of the line, is this community?
Speaker 1:Yes, it is really close to the existing South Shore line as well as one of the metro lines on the west side of Altgale Gardens. Right now, though, there's no stops right there. The current end of the red line extension is going to be right next to the South Shore line tracks right next to the South Shore line tracks. To me, especially considering the price tag of this program at over a billion dollars a mile, I'll remind you it feels like if you added an infill station on the South Shore line, an infill station on the Metro line on the other side, and then you add some good circulator buses that are actually frequent, that get you to those two things, you're going to solve a lot of the problem.
Speaker 1:And then, in addition to that, you could also take this existing 34 bus and I'm sure there are other buses that run through this corridor to the end of the current red line at 95th Street and upgrade some of that infrastructure to make it more of a true BRT. And upgrade some of that infrastructure to make it more of a true BRT, you could achieve very similar, if not almost better, connectivity for the area by adding these infill stations Now, like the frequencies on those commuter lines are going to be less than the red line would be. But if you do that in partnership with adding some additional bus infrastructure, but like nice bus infrastructure, brt lines, I do think that you could serve the area just as well, if not potentially better, for a small portion of the price tag. Now again, I don't want to be all doom and gloom.
Speaker 3:I'll let you kind of give the yeah, no, I think it's a good alternative. I mean, you're wrong but kidding it's a good alternative for sure. And when you look at the map, yes, this sort of rail desert. It does have these two lines that could better serve the community by adding infill stations. I know that the CTA in their environmental impact study they looked at BRT lines. This was an alternative that they explored but ultimately decided to go with this extension of the L train and I think that there's a couple of good points to talk about on why they did that.
Speaker 3:One of them excuse me, one of them is reliability and connectivity. So if you have a lot more buses in this area as much as I do like buses and I think buses are a good alternative to rail in a lot of cases buses do have more issues with reliability. They break down, there's more congestion on the roadways, there's road projects that have them diverted, you need a lot of drivers, you need a lot of drivers and also they have lower capacity. So there are challenges that get presented with the buses. Same with the BRT route you can't move as many people with the BRT. You can get kind of close, but you can't move as many people with the BRT and then you're still taking a bus to then transfer at a station.
Speaker 3:But one point that I think is really valuable for people who are jumping on this redline extension is that there's no end-of-the-line transfer either. For the most part you might move to another L train. But if your goal is to, let's say, get to the north side of Chicago because that's where you work, if you are on that red line, you can take it all the way to the north side and you don't have to transfer at the Union Station or any of the downtown stations. You can basically ride it straight through the loop and get to your north destination. But even if you're trying to get to, let's say, o'hare Airport or something, it's a quick transfer on the red line and then you're out to O'Hare at that central hub. So I do think for connectivity this is a faster option for the residents of this community?
Speaker 1:No, it certainly is, and I mean it's all about depending on, like, where people's travel patterns are taking them. Right, because if they're just trying to get to other destinations on the south side of Chicago, the BRT thing that I'm mentioning might actually provide more locations than the elevated rail here will, because the elevated rail has stop spacing. That's pretty far apart, which as it should be for a network like that. But if folks are trying to get all the way to downtown or points north, then the extension makes sense. But if you're trying to get all the way to downtown or points north, then the extension makes sense. But if you're trying to get to downtown, I mean you have these two commuter lines on either end of the, the neighborhood. That can kind of solve that problem too.
Speaker 1:So it's definitely it's a tricky one, it's not, it's I. Just the thing that makes me nervous, entering into the political reality that we're in today, is we're just setting ourselves up to be like wow, they're spending a billion dollars a mile, it's get the five billion dollar, boondoggle, blah, blah. I can already hear sean duffy out there talking shit about this. Frankly, like, and I, I again, I actually, like you know I'm, I want there to be a a really well done transportation system everywhere in the united states, but like this makes you know, I understand like this area needs better transit, like what I'm hearing is that you don't think these residents deserve a train?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's exactly what. You know what? No, I'm saying that they deserve two trains on either side and vrt, it's.
Speaker 1:It's just tricky. I guess I'm trying to wrangle in my head with all this stuff right now of what should we be prioritizing, what types of projects should we be doing, and I don't know. I just get nervous when this happens, that this is just another example that the Trump administration can point to and be like, oh, we're spending so much money, let's just have a private company, would never spend that kind of money. Well, let's privatize it all. Like they're saying with Amtrak, like they're saying with the post office, like they're saying with all this stuff right now, I just start to get nervous.
Speaker 3:I don't disagree. I think that it's worthy to be nervous of that, because what we're seeing is really troubling. We've seen the press conference at the California high speed rail about trying to kill it.
Speaker 2:I think they were chanting build the rail. It's been 17 years and 16 billion dollars and no rail has been built. So if you want to go protest somewhere, if you want to shout at someone, go to the governor's mansion. Go talk to Democrats in the legislature who have brought us this crappy project right. So we've seen over the course of the last month what doge has exposed with regard to fraud, waste and abuse, and we're done with it. And you know what? You're gonna have people who love fraud, who love waste, who love trains to nowhere. But all of us up here, we do not love fraud, waste and abuse.
Speaker 3:I could very easily see them starting to target these projects like these, especially because they're in heavily Democratic cities.
Speaker 1:This would be so easy for them to pick on If it was $5 billion in Jacksonville Florida, they probably wouldn't say we're not Definitely not.
Speaker 3:I always pick on Jacksonville, florida, as my conservative example, and I don't even know how they vote, so you know, but it's in.
Speaker 1:Florida, so obviously they vote more conservative than Chicago does. Yeah, that's kind of like the biggest qualm I have and I mean I think again, I would be really excited to see this happen, given the existing plan. But yeah, it seems like there were a lot of potential alternatives and maybe we will start to see infill stations also happen and you get the red line and you maybe also get a commuter line or something like that I will say.
Speaker 3:Another reason why I think they're going with the train line is they do expect these new stations, this new line, to spur. I think it was over $1.7 billion in development along these corridors, so that's more apartments that can be built, more shops to serve these communities. Obviously, it's going to come with a little more gentrification, yep, but that is sort of an inevitability with transit projects like this, yep. But I also think and this wasn't explicitly laid out, but looking at the map there are communities that are further south of this that I think would benefit from rail as well as well. Wow of this that I think would benefit from rail as well as well. Wow, rail as well, rail as well. And this could be a good spur to then connect those communities. Yeah, but to your point, we had this discussion before we jumped on. The red line is already getting very long, right, and if you're riding from, let's say, the Indiana State line all the way back to downtown Chicago, it's going to take a while.
Speaker 1:It feels a little excessive for being part of the elevated rail system, not part of the suburban network. For the suburban network. Yes, keep going basically.
Speaker 3:Although any Long Island New York City rider is laughing at that statement, probably yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, and I mean to argue against myself here already, now that you bring up the points of like additional development happening and whatnot. I mean that additional development will drive more property tax revenue for the city and all the stuff that can be funneled back into projects like this. So you know, while the $5.7 billion price tag is crazy, it's not like that revenue won't come in via other sources in the future. It is an investment. I do think that we should be able to build transit for less than that in the United States and that we should actively be trying to figure out how we can do that. I'm not holding my breath for us doing that anytime soon, but I would like to see that happen. Even an expensive project like this will pay off in dividends in the long run, but you have to have that longer view picture. I just get worried that the folks in power don't do that right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, maybe the folks in power will come up with a scheme like we're going to build a rail and Mexico will pay for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not going to hold my breath on that one either. They'll say that they're going to do it. They'll say that Mexico paid for it, and then there will still be no rail. Yeah, exactly. I also think it's worth pointing out apologies for getting a little political in this episode, just because it's, but frankly, it is all getting very political right now, transit is very politicized.
Speaker 1:But you know, I guess first I'll give kudos to the Biden administration for making sure that the grants and everything were signed and approved before the transition to the Trump administration. Because right now, as we watch here in Austin, I'm very worried about Project Connect funding. I'm very worried about other cities trying to do similar things. So glad to see that Chicago was able to have this approved in mid-January before the Biden administration left.
Speaker 3:You also did make a good point. We need to blast this story out to every person in Austin and show them that we're getting a really good deal on Project Connect.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3:We're spending $7 billion and actually less than that because we have a buffer in there.
Speaker 1:We have 40% contingency $7 billion for I think it's 10 miles of light rail to start.
Speaker 3:And they very well may well have that buffer in there too. They might.
Speaker 1:Hopefully they do for the cost there. But, yeah, definitely worth pointing out. The negative I'll put on this, though, is like man for how, like train positive, joe Biden was, amtrak, joe, all of this stuff. Like I don't want to discount the, the amount of work that went into, like studying the corridor, id programs and all this sort of stuff and allocating thing, but like it's there's no teeth to it. It's gone now. Like like sure, the studies exist, but like there will be no forward progress on any of that for the next four years. And just like after sitting here watching how abruptly and aggressively the new administration has rolled in and just done all the stuff that they wanted to do and I don't even agree with all the ways that they're doing it, but like if they're gonna play that way, democrats need to play that way also. And just like start like the next time they have power, if they don't seize it, I'm going to lose my mind.
Speaker 3:I'm going to lose my mind at least seize it on transit funding, please. But anyway, that is a good overview, I think, of the Chicago red line extension as well as my political rants.
Speaker 3:At the end I'm going to try to wrap this up before Doge comes in and kills our podcast, but I think that is a good explanation of sort of the Chicago red line rants. At the end I'm going to try to wrap this up before Doge comes in and kills our podcast, but I think that is a good explanation of sort of the Chicago red line, the extension that's happening down there. I do think ultimately, this is going to be a really good project for residents in this part of the city because as it stands now it does seem like their commutes are pretty long and exhaustive, but this will definitely help them get better connections. I do think it's better for economic development for Chicago and ultimately, good for the city of Chicago. It's just the reality now that these projects have very, very high price tags.
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Speaker 1:Awesome. With all that being said, thank you all so much for watching and enjoy the rest of your Transit. Tangent Tuesday.