By now, even your city has probably been invaded by dockless scooters. What are they? Where did they come from? Are they better than dockable bikes? What is Micro-Mobility? Find out all of this and more in this week's episode.
By now, even your city has probably been invaded by dockless scooters. What are they? Where did they come from? Are they better than dockable bikes? What is Micro-Mobility? Find out all of this and more in this week's episode.
My name is Luis. I'm Chris. And today we are going to be diving into all things micro mobility, whether that be scooters, mostly
Chris:Louis, what is micro mobility?
Louis:That is that's a great question. What is micro mobility? There is an official definition. But the less official definition is small devices that get you around fairly quickly. Usually they're electric like that.
Chris:Yeah, small devices that can get you from point A to point B. Like personalized transportation.
Louis:Gotcha. So some of the examples we'll talk about today scooters, Bike Share, whether that be like the kind of dockable bikes that you've seen in cities, the ones that are kind of just strewn about, we'll get into the details and the differences between all of those lots of talk about they're they're very controversial, some cities have banned some of these modes of transportation. Before we jump into all of that, though, we've been very excited about all of the feedback we've been getting from everybody. The amount of people actually listening and watching this has gone up quite a bit. We blew past 1000 streams of the podcast, we're probably at we might even be at two now from being honest. But yeah, yeah. So thank you all so much for watching and listening, watching, listening, subscribing, rating, commenting. And speaking of comments, I think you have a couple to read off today. Yes, and we're gonna definitely read off some comments at the end of the episode. And please, like as we're watching, these are as you're as you're watching these via thoughts, leave a comment, we will read all of them. It makes a big difference. So and at the start here, if you have thoughts on Micromobility. Before this episode, let us know what do you think of scooters? What do you think of bikes bike shares in the comments below. And then at the end, you can leave another one to see if we've changed your mind on something. And if you're not subscribed to us, if you're watching on YouTube, please consider hitting the subscribe button. If you haven't rated us on your favorite podcast platform that you might be listening on. Consider doing that. Also, comments aren't just for watchers, if you are listening on any of the podcast platforms, and you'd like to leave a comment some of the podcast platforms allow that or just go to transit tangents.com you'll see a contact form and you can tell us whatever you want. Tell us your favorite transit stories tell us we're doing a great job. Give us a feedback, like we're doing a great job, and whatever else you want to type. Yes. So with all that aside, now let's jump into the Micromobility episode. So first off, I think we want to start off with a bit of a history of how this is all kind of come to take over our cities. It has been I have gone down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out where these community transportation systems have started. As anybody who's listening or watching has probably seen in the most recent six years, almost every North American city has been in vated by these dockless scooter programs, which you know, on paper sound great, but then in theory, or then in reality, you just see scooters strewn about the streets, you're you're walking over them and causes some problems. In addition to that, you also see dockless bike systems, similar thing they're kind of everywhere. But then you see the other side of it, which is a little more organized like our dockable bike sharing programs and we're gonna get into sort of all of these all of these things. Initially that when we look this up a really fun thing was scooters that look just like the like dockless scooters, the bird scooters, lime scooters, whatever ones you might have in your city, if they're not bands there. They look crazy, crazy similar. For those of you watching, we'll put up an image here so you can see it for those of you listening, you're gonna have to take our word for it. Imagine just like a slightly older looking version of the scooters and like Chris found some fun photos. Yeah, if you if you had to guess the first year I got Well, you already know this. But yeah, before today, if you had to guess when the first sort of motorized scooter came out what we'd been been your thought? I mean, it would have been recent. It would have I would my guess would have been maybe like the 80s or something. Yeah, same. You know, I was shocked when I started doing some research and found that the earliest motorized scooters were produced in 1915 in New York, and they look wildly similar, exact same like we We have not reinvented the wheel is, it is the same little platform with the two wheels. It even has like the long handlebar. The only difference is like instead of having little throttles you had to like move the the handlebar kind of back and forth to engage the clutch and like keep it moving. But these things are wild. And you see people in like the big, big dresses like a top hat, riding these things through New York, it looks like chat GPT created images of people writing these things, but they were dangerous. They went 35 miles an hour. This is before you had all roads being like smoothly paved, which, arguably we don't have that today. But roads were way worse. There was still like horse traffic on the streets and you're zooming by 35 miles an hour on this thing. There's like different levels of conflict in that era right now. It's like scooters, bikes and cars, then it was scooters, bikes and horses. Exactly. Yeah. So you're just like zooming past these people, safety gears, not a thing, really 15. It's just wild. And they were in production from 1915 to 1920 to 90, they stopped production in the US a little bit before they stopped production in Germany. And there's only a handful of these things left today. One of them I think, is sitting in the Smithsonian, right with fear. Yeah, I'd love to see it. Honestly, that would be pretty cool. I couldn't, I couldn't get over that seeing that timeframe that scooters were a thing. Kind of fast forward a little bit in time, was kind of the beginning of any sort of sharing program for bikes or scooters. We saw a couple of cities, I believe the first was Amsterdam, to launch a bike share program of some sort, if we're talking about if we're talking sort of community transportation sharing. Well, after the scooters were invented, there was an experiment in Amsterdam by this anarchist group called Provo. And their goal was to put I think, 100 bikes on the street and have them available to anybody, they painted the bikes white, and just left them around the city. And within about, I don't know, a week or so, all the bikes are either stolen or thrown in the canal. Yep. So kind of a kind of a wild story. It is a it is such a like a romantic idea, though, that like there could just be bikes out, like I understand the desire for that. Absolutely, to be able to get off the train or walk out your front door. And it's like, I just need to go a little bit. There's this shared bike right here, I can get on it, leave the bike outside of the business, and then walk to my next destination or whatever and have them everywhere. But unfortunately, people have the tendency to, to not want nice things. I don't know. People are going to people, whatever they vote people, absolutely. People are going to people. And that is a theme that you're going to see over and over and over again. And the history of these Yes, history of these systems. Yeah. So yeah, that was kind of the first one. And there were some similar systems that happened in quite a few different places where there are these just kind of like strewn about no organization, no docks, or anything like that. We saw it again. In Portland. Yeah, there was the yellow bike program in Portland, where they put out dockless bikes all over the city. And again, same thing, they didn't last very long, the bikes were very quickly vandalized or stolen. So it was too costly to continue to replace these these bikes. And what's actually cool about the bike program is that that organization still exists in Portland, they have just now transitioned to helping people get to bikes, basically helping people who maybe disadvantaged in purchasing or having a bike to to commute and correct me if I'm wrong. That's like a nationwide thing. And a lot of places we have a yellow bike here in Austin, we do they associated Derbyshire, we'll have to, we'll find out, we'll have to find out. Well, we'll find out. Yeah, so you have some firsthand experience with a similar system to this. I actually have not heard this story yet. It's been teased to me multiple times. So I'm going to be hearing it for the first time also.
Chris Jones:So we do have some experience with it. And again, this is an example if we don't learn from history, correct. And again, people are going to people. So in 2011, I was at the University of South Alabama and mobile, and I was part of the Student Government. And this we had this extra money in our, in our fund. You know, we got to as a student government, we get to vote on the programs you got to use this money for. And one of the programs we chose to fund was a bike share program on campus. And at the time, I remember big debates about oh, well, how do we track them, you have to check them out from like the library or you have a docking system and all of that was too costly. So we just said, You know what, let's just put them all over campus. No locks, no checkout system, and then people can just use them and they'll like, naturally distribute themselves in this perfect way around campus. Which again, it's Sounds like on paper sounds great, right? It's the ideals. Yeah, I and it was it was this whole big grand opening sort of thing the President of the University and all the VPS got on the bikes, the news came out, the marching band came out, we had this this big bike ride down the the main drag of the university. And that's also when I discovered that the bikes didn't have gears and they also didn't have brakes with they didn't have brakes you had. You had to back pedal to break. Whoa, okay. And I did not realize this. So I get on the bike. And I'm like going down a little hill right behind the the whole procession and ended up veering off into the curb. Like it doesn't meet other people. That's hilarious. Other people knew. And I didn't know and they're like, Have you ever had a bike race like that since I was a kid? Like, that's how they used to when I was a kid. Exactly. And yeah, I don't think I've written one since I was four. Wow. You know, but so we launched this big bike share program, and I got to use it a couple times in between classes. And it was really convenient. Yeah. But within maybe three months, almost the entire fleet of 500 bikes had gone in for repairs, had disappeared had been vandalized bikes. That's not a small No, it wasn't small. We did in the at the time, the campus was 15,001 students they're very proud of and one doesn't one. But we had 500 bikes on campus. And yeah, almost all of them either disappeared or damaged. There was a Facebook group that got created called where's this jag bike, we were the Jaguars. It was like, where's this jag bike and the JAG bike, we'd like be in a tree or in a bar downtown, or in a in a dorm room or in New Orleans. Like they were everywhere. So that's amazing. That's, wow, that's where it was worth the wait for me. I'm kind of glad I didn't know it. Until now. I would say I was actually having a conversation with a friend about this last night, I was trying to figure out who came up with the bike share program. And I tracked down all of these people I used to work with at the campus to try to figure it out. And the one person that the news credited with creating the program, I talked to her and she's like, it was not my idea. I had nothing to do with this. Well, I think at this point, she probably might be trying to distance herself from the idea. But I mentioned all of them like, Wow, what a big failure. And somebody one of my very good friends, Paige, she pushed back on that she was I don't think it was a failure, because I think it it created a need for bikes and more people started bringing their bikes to campus, probably. Yeah, yeah. And then now today, lime services, the campus there. Yeah. So there we go. We created the legacy of it. And despite all of the bikes being stolen, which is the recurring theme, yeah, it seemed to be a success in the long run. Well, and I think you mentioning lime, there is a good kind of segue into the next phase of this. We've now heard about several, just kind of, we'll call them like more free free flowing Bike Share programs where there is like zero accountability, essentially, to the user. It's fully just on our system to the max to the extreme. Then kind of led to the advent of the dockable systems. Yeah, first ones appearing in 1995. In the UK, not only five University of Portsmouth. Portsmouth College, Portsmouth University, one of those, yes. But in Portsmouth in the UK, yeah, Knights 95, they created a program that use a card to unlock the bikes, it had a dockable system. And you got a really heavy fine if you didn't return the bike. So they did incentivize returning it, they did start to learn from their mistakes at that point. Those are like pretty popular in a lot of cities. Now, the most like, I don't know that this is the most used but in New York City, city bikes are everywhere. here in Austin, we have our own version of it. It's Metro bike, the cycle cycle. Yeah, it's going through some changes at the moment. But most cities have these sort of dockable systems. And what's actually really cool about this dockable systems. It was introduced in North America in Montreal, the City of Montreal had this big sort of idea gathering initiative about how to improve mobility in the city. And people came up with the idea of this dockable bike system, again, not not a new idea, right. But they wanted to create a more efficient way to dock the bikes and move them around the city. So Montreal actually created their own company to manage this bike program, and then began leasing the technology from this program and selling it to other cities. So Boston, New York, DC, all of these big cities that had the first like huge rollouts of their work their rental bank systems. Were using Montreal company to do it, and that's where Citi Bike comes from. That's where the Yeah, the DC metro share, I think it was called. So yeah, it's actually really cool that it came out of agile and Those systems have seen I mean, there's still issues with all these systems like there will be bikes that will break go missing and whatnot. But like way more organized in the cities and whatnot, you don't have them kind of strewn about everywhere, as we'll get into more detail in a second. But that is a much more organized and clear system of like, how to use it and whatnot. There's some drawbacks that we'll talk about in a little bit here, but more more organized, more accountability to the user, more trackable as far as like where they are, and if there are maintenance issues, and all this sort of stuff. And then kind of the last Advent, as we kind of go through the history is the scooter systems and the first kind of shared scooters that popped up in the US at least were in I think, was 2017. You had bird launching in Santa Monica. And they literally just like appeared out of nowhere overnight. The company didn't ask for permission to do it or anything. They just literally dropped scooters out one night in Santa Monica, and let let people do what they will with them. Obviously the scooter wave if you live in an American city, at some point probably came through your city, and in some cases has left your city depending on the you know, laws that that your city council's and whatnot may have passed. So I was actually doing some research on the US Department transportations website on Micromobility. And they do show that there was this huge surge after 2017 2018 2019. This huge surge of scooters programs all across the US and some Bike Share programs. COVID killed almost half of the scooter programs in the country. Wow. And only now are they really reaching back to their pre pandemic levels, which I think we also, you know, we talked about this earlier today. Austin is like ground zero for scooters, which is wild. It's insane. There are scooters everywhere. And I think we saw that as well. During COVID. There were only maybe two companies and now we went riding around town yesterday and get some of the if you're watching to get some of the B roll that you've seen in this episode. Some of it's probably goofy. Yeah, it's Yeah. But we were downtown and there's you know, hundreds of scooters within a block and there's probably four or five companies, right. We've got lime, lime bird. There's like another green one link, link. Super pedestrians, you professor Podesta, there are other kinds of companies. See, when we were in Salt Lake City, we wrote a scooter part of that spin is another one. So there's five right there. There are definitely more than that. Yeah. Some of them now, though, financially are still not doing well. I know bird in particular. At one point it was over a billion dollar valuation. And I'm pretty sure they're close to bankrupt at this point. I don't know. It's yeah, they've all taken some time to reach profitability. I think lime finally reached it in 2022. So some of the companies are doing well. others not so much. But there was also this this flood of competition in the market. And we're talking about it micro mobility in the shared program. You you were talking about. Transportation means that should be really cheap. It should only take a couple cents to get across a downtown. If you're using a scooter. And that may have been the case in 2018. Right? That was not the case yesterday. No. Yeah, we were like, oh, like let's let's just take some scooters around. We first off Chris is officially a member of the cult of E bikes. We eat bikes downtown, we met up on the route on the way you biked downtown. And we're like alright, like for the sake of the episode let's let's get the get the scooters out ride around downtown a bit. We were talking about the cost of it. I'm pretty sure we both spent over. I was I spent almost $10 And I spent 11 I think. And I mean, we use them for probably 15. We went halfway across downtown Austin. Yeah, we were on him for 15 minutes. Yeah. It was. It was a ridiculous amount to spend. Yeah, to just scoot around downtown. Yeah, the route that we took was hilarious. Like afterwards, it shows you like, here's where you traveled. And it was like a big square. Like, oh, it was that worth the love dollars. I don't know, when it was super cheap. And they first came out. I remember being downtown kind of late at night. And my friend Danielle and I went to the US, not us. I went to the state capitol. And we had races around the Capitol on the scooters. Yeah, that would be an expensive affair. Now. I can't do that. No. But yeah, so now that's kind of like where we are now. There are a lot of pros and cons to it to these that I think we should get into. So do want to start with pros of dockless. Sure, and then we'll work our way through. Sure. So it what do you think? So if I'm thinking of a dockless program, the Pro to me again, all this is great on paper, but the Pro to me is that it is much more widespread. You can deploy them in areas where there's higher congestion, you can move the dockless systems to areas where there's going to be events. Yeah, so like in Austin when we of Austin City Limits, which is like the huge music festival 70,000 ish people a day. Yeah, you can take the bikes and create an entire parking area and a pickup area, not all the bikes and scooters, and you can really deploy them to serve the transit needs of that particular event, location or event. So I think that is a huge plus for the program. I would also say it is like entirely destination to destination. Like if it's like you're using public transit and then needing to get the last mile, which is like kind of the main argument for the use of a lot of these things, you can get off get on the scooter, and literally go to the door of the destination you're going whereas the the other systems require you to find the dock somewhere. So I think those are the two major pluses of I hadn't thought of the one that you just mentioned of like you can really you can pick them up and move them somewhere. Those are the pluses. Let's talk about the negatives of these though the cons. We saw some of it yesterday. And you've definitely seen this probably somewhere else is the chaos that we're talking about. There's basically like, No, I mean, there are rules, technically, of like how you're supposed to park these things and whatnot. But you can park a scooter somewhere and then it falls over and now it's in the middle of a sidewalk and then another one falls over and it's in the middle of the sidewalk. And there's just like scooters like littered everywhere. It's it is absolutely chaos on the streets of just seeing scooters all over the place. I've seen them in bushes. I've seen them half buried in the dirt. I've seen them in the Lake Erie, Austin. I've seen them just trashed on the side of the road, you see them in all states of disrepair. And it really is a visual pollution in the city. It makes it look very cluttered. But also the lithium batteries. And these things while are great for quick charging and getting around town. If they are in the lake and they started leaking into the water supply. That is a major environmental hazard. Yeah. In addition to the visual pollution, though, again, I talked to my friend Paige last night about Micromobility. And her brother has cerebral palsy and he's in a wheelchair scooters and dockless bikes are such a problem for them getting around Birmingham, Alabama, because these these devices are all over the streets, and they have to move them to allow the wheelchair her brother to get through. And that is that is a major problem for people who have other types of mobility assistance needed when these devices are clogging up the streets. Totally No. I mean, yeah, like I said, everyone has probably seen that there. And, you know, cities try to do things to make it better for folks getting around on a wheelchair. But oftentimes, it's not a prep major priority as it should be. And like there'll be a narrow ramp to get up the sidewalk. And if there's two scooters sitting at the top of it, someone who might be traveling in a wheelchair on their own is going to potentially be stuck there and not being able to get around it. And that's not okay at all. So the last thought that I had was actually about the scooters. And one of the downsides. There was a study done in Austin, actually 20 injuries per 100,000 rides. Wow. 20 injuries per 100,000. That is doesn't sound like a lot when you're saying Oh, it's just 20 When you add that up, that is a lot. Right? It is a lot of injuries. It doesn't surprise me having like the first time I've written them, I mean you you like go for it the first time usually I feel like because you're like wow, this is awesome. You can go like 15 miles an hour or something. And yeah, I mean, if you're not used also, like people doing them are probably used to riding bikes or anything in with traffic around so you definitely people going fast, chaotic, they might have been drinking like sorts of. But potholes, utility tracks in the street, like there's all of these little obstacles you have to avoid. I know that Austin streets are not always the best, especially in downtown Austin. So I have to be like really conscious as I'm, as I'm riding around to make sure I don't like veer off into a hole somewhere. Absolutely no, it's that's why the study was done here too. But that as you said earlier on, like Austin really is kind of a ground zero for so many for scooting for schooling, or schooling or schooling. I do want to like let's focus specifically on dockable. Now because we did a lot on non dockable. So pros of a dockable bike system. Starting off obviously is the opposite of the the dock list is the fact that they are not chaos. They're organized. They're you know, a clear system where you're parking them in a specific place, only asleep integrated into the urban landscape. Yes. That was beautiful. Couldn't have said it better myself. That pro though is also a con in the sense that you cannot get them everywhere and in cities where they might have some of these stations. It can actually get kind of inconvenient slash confusing. You've got to first find a bike station But then you have to find one near where you are trying to go to return it. And you also need to hope that there are bikes at the station that you're going to and that there are spaces to park it at the one that you're going to so have you had experience using city bike in New York, I've used it in New York once. So that's not like, you know it, oh, I use it for a day. So it wasn't like one time we used it for a whole day to kind of get around. And I didn't have issues with it, actually, we were able to navigate around pretty good. One issue we did have is we thought we were going to be able to find a bike station. We were like in Brooklyn, I think at this point, and we crossed a line from Queens into Brooklyn somewhere. And we wrote almost all the way to our destination. And then we're like, shit, there are no stations for returning or we had to ride back. Oh, anyways, so but that is the con is I didn't live there. I didn't know where you know where the stations were going to be. At the time. It was this was like 2018. So I probably wasn't as like, Oh, I've got the app and all this stuff. Like I had a hard time finding where the stations were so did have issues with it there. I've used them in Austin a little bit. But it's definitely I'm not like using it to commute. And there's definitely not as many stations in Austin, when you look in New York, there's like over 2000 in the area. So the issue I have I go to New York and I try to use city bike. The most common issue I have is I can't park it, right, like I get to a station. Oh, no, no parking, okay? Like, I look at the map, and it says, Oh, you have five open slots, and then I get there and there's not see that's it, that's a major issue. And that would be like an AI that would cause me to probably use it less. I know, my partner Jerry, his brother in law uses he's uh, he lives over in Hoboken, New Jersey, I think it's still city bike on that side, he uses it to connect to the transit to get into New York City every day from his apartment. And he has like a monthly pass. So and those who have a similar rate structure, I would say is like a an unlock fee, and then per minute, but there are also like membership, things. And if you are a member, especially if the dockless or have the dockable ones, it can be very affordable. The dockless ones are still a little pricey, but another pro of the deductible bike systems, you don't necessarily have to have a smartphone to use it. With the dockless systems, you almost always have to have a smartphone, which already cuts out some people in the population. And then I get that that that subset of the population is shrinking quickly. But not everybody has a smartphone, right? I mean, even like, obviously you're thinking like smartphones are expensive. So like folks with lower income, but elderly people can totally you know, my grandparents. Up until recently were riding bikes. I know. You know, my my parents are in their 60s, they ride bikes. They use smartphones, but a lot of them don't give me like I know how to use the smart. Yeah, so I think that's another another good point. And I'm really grateful that you don't necessarily have a smartphone because I got stranded once in Washington DC, I was going to meet a friend who sort of ghosted me, oh, I'm not going to name names. I'm still talking to this friend. But they had something go late, and my phone died. And I was stranded in downtown DC. And I didn't know how to get back. I was sitting in Crystal City and Virginia. And I didn't know how to get back there. And I didn't know how to use the buses. Now. Now I feel more comfortable. But I didn't know how to use the buses. The train stopped at midnight. So I had no way to take the train back. And I could not find a taxi anywhere. I even went to Union Station could not find a taxi. Yeah, I ended up wandering around. So I got to the mall and found the dockable bike system and they at the DC they have these giant maps that tell you where the stations are. And like the radius. And I went station to station took me about two hours I went station to station read like checking the map to get from near the Capitol Building to Crystal City. Right them well, and you were able to do it. And that's yeah, no, that's that's a really good point. Yeah, so that's kind of a there's there are a lot of pros and cons to these. I think that the dockable is probably the the long term solution that makes the most sense, assuming cities can build out a big enough network of them so that you're not stressed about am I gonna be able to park it somewhere so that you're not ending up like I did in a part of town where like there aren't any. I think that that long term should be the goal for these sorts of things. I do think we can bring order to the chaos of dockless We saw this in Salt Lake City. When we tried to park the scooters at the museum. Yeah, there's a designated box on the ground and there's a geofence around it. So that the system knows when you're in the box and when you're not right. So there is a way to to organize. Right? Yeah, so I think a combination of doing things like that and expanding dockable systems is the is the long term solution. I'm excited here in Austin where we live. Our dock system is about to expand quite a bit. it. I'm blanking on the number off top of my head, but I'll make sure I link an article down down below. And there's also a survey right now if you're an Austin resident, have you can fill out three places where you would like to see Oh, nice future dock station. So I'll put that down there below, too. I filled it out a week or so ago right in front of my house. Yeah, no, but like, so right now. It's pretty concentrated in downtown and like a little bit of South Austin. And it doesn't go north of University of Texas at Austin, basically, north of that is kind of a dead zone for dock dock bikes. But there is great bikeability up there now in North Austin as if you watch her last episode with Kelsey. You know, she talks about how North Austin is so much more bikable and it is I live in North Austin now too. And it's it's a game changer there. But again, let us know what you thought of that. Did we change your mind on any of this as far as scooters, bikes? dockless K chaos, you know, or dockless dockable? Yeah, definitely let us know if we change your mind. If you still think the same thing. We definitely want to hear your comments. Speaking of which, we are going to read them again at this episode too. We're like we're very close to 100 subscribers. I know that sounds small. But that is a personal goldmine. I would like to get us there. That's kind of a big moment. So if you haven't subscribed yet, also, please consider doing so and share the video, share the video, share the podcast rate and podcast all of the above. I'm going to read a couple comments. We've actually got quite a few on the last so so we're not gonna go through all of them necessarily. On the last episode though, the ebike episode with Kelsey. Somebody said, I remember back in the 90s. It was faster to bike 30 minutes rather than wait for the next bus and pray the bus doesn't miss the next bus depot sync time. Hell, I remember biking faster than the bus going all out. And once I passed the bus, I stopped at the next bus stop to take a break by hopping on the bus I just passed. I did this all on a regular bike. An electric bike would have decimated the bus. Yes, the electric bike does decimate the bus for the most part. Kelsey told us that's why she basically just uses her ebike to get everywhere now instead of using the bus. So thank you. Coulomb Molech apologies for butchering your name. This was on the gondola episode, and we actually had a couple comments from this person on the last few. So David Faris 8782. Thank you for all the comments. I'm going to read this one here. So I'm a Utah local. I used to be pro gondola. I ski and rock climb in the different canyons here and I got stuck in a four hour traffic jam during a blizzard trying to get out of little cottonwood last year. I think that's when I became pro gondola. I've never heard the stop the gondola argument put together so well. I'm convinced. I would love to take a bus up to the different resorts. The service is just so unreliable. Props to Julia. Yeah, Julie did a great job. And that episode to you like we've been really excited about the response. Like we got over 500 views on it, like right away, which was super cool to see. So David, thank you for the comments on some of your other episodes as well. And for subscribing. We appreciate it. Let's see. We'll pick one or two more here. Somebody made fun of the way we said alta. I'm not sure how he wrote. This is Ian Kendall 75 Altia I think that's how we were like Altia it's pronounced like altitude outta o alto. Oh, Alta, Alta. Okay, I get it now. Actually didn't get it. Altitude alta. Alta southern brain. It's like It's like the difference between a pin pin and nevermind a lot of other comments here too. I'll just read out some names to thank you all for for doing it. Mitch key 2176 Thank you, Steven. 7650 Oh, I know him. So do you know I don't know. Yeah, so we will have one more salt lake city episode coming up soon as well. So stay tuned for that. We got a lot of fun other ones coming down the pipe as well down the pipe down the pike. Yeah, in the pipeline in the pipeline. Sure. With all that being down the turnpike. Thank you all so much for watching. We really appreciate it. Stay tuned for a lot more and enjoy the rest of your Transit TangentTuesday.